The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice Of The DSO Industry – Episode 163

Dr. Joshua Austin, Private Practice Owner & Editorial Director of Dental Economics joins the Group Dentistry Now show with Lisa Kottke, Key Account Manager of Ivoclar. The duo focuses in on dental adhesive systems like Adhese Universal VivaPen. Discussion points include:

  • Enhancing standardization & consistency in treatment workflows
  • Clinical advantages of VivaPen
  • Strategic goals of dental groups to enhance quality of care
  • Minimizing waste and budget management
  • Much more

To find out more about Ivoclar visit –

To receive your free Efficient Esthetics trial kit that includes the Adhese Universal VivaPen visit

To find your local Ivoclar rep visit –

To contact Dr. Joshua Austin or find out more about him visit his Instagram page –

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Full Transcript:

Bill Neumann : And I’d like to welcome everyone to the Group Dentistry Now show. I’m Bill Neumann. And as always, we appreciate you tuning in, whether you are listening to us on Apple, Spotify, or Google, or hopefully you’re watching us on YouTube. However, you are consuming this great content. We couldn’t do it without your dedication to this channel. And of course, that’s how we get great guests like the next two guests we have here. So I’m gonna introduce Dr. Joshua Austin. He is in private practice and he is also, you may have seen his face before, the Editorial Director for Dental Economics Magazine. I think this is the first time we’ve had another person from a publication on our webinar here, our podcast, but good to have you here, Josh. It’s nice to see you, and we appreciate you being part of this. This is sponsored by Ivoclar, and we also have Lisa Kotke. She is Senior Manager of Strategic Accounts for Ivoclar. You may have seen her before. She’s been in the dental industry for 30 years. So, Lisa, thanks for joining us. Thank you, Bill. So why don’t we start with you, Lisa, a little bit about your background and your role at Ivoclar.

Lisa Kottke: Thank you, Bill. Well, dentistry has been my life. As you said, or you mentioned, I have been in dentistry for over 30 years, held many roles, working chair side to practice management, a little dabble in the insurance side, worked in technology for a while in dental industry, and then most recently, account manager. And then I joined I Have a Car about a year ago. Dentistry, again, has been in my blood and my passion for many, many years, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here today with you.

Bill Neumann : That’s great. Thanks, Lisa. And Dr. Austin, how long have you been over at Dental Economics, and what’s your role there?

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, so that started probably in 2014. I started on as editorial director of the science and technology section. um, when Chris Salerno took over as the editor in chief and have been there ever since, but still at the end of the day, um, and I’m going to use a term that I hate. Uh, I am a private practice, wet fingered clinician. Like I am, you know, in the trenches doing dentistry, you know, three to four days a week. Um, so it’s not like my whole life is, is just a, it’s just writing or things like that. Like I’m, I’m doing the same stuff that all the listeners are doing, which is, you know, deep DO composites on number three and you know, carries on a class five, you know, a geriatric patient and all those types of things that you, that the listeners here are struggling with. I struggle with the same things.

Bill Neumann : And you’re, you’re in private practice and where’s your practice located? San Antonio, Texas. Okay. San Antonio. Great. Um, well this is good stuff here. Um, so what we’re doing here, and this is our second podcast with, with I have a car. really calling this the Clinician’s Corner Podcast, because everything we’re discussing is clinical. And we’re going to focus in today on bonding. And it’s pretty interesting. My background is I worked for a… I’ll leave the manufacturer out of this. It was not Ivoclar, but they had bonding agents and composites and things like that. And we always kind of joked about how, you know, bonding agents were rather costly. And I think if you did a per ounce, it was like more expensive than gold. So and also trying to figure out what bonding agent works with what materials. That was always a huge challenge. So we’re really gonna talk about a really incredible solution that’s gonna help with waste when it comes to bonding agent, like we said, rather expensive material. And then we’re also gonna talk about how you can use it universally. So the product is Adhese Universal and it’s in a pen, Viva Pen. So Adhese Universal Viva Pen. So maybe we’ll start with you, Dr. Austin. Talk about the product itself and kind of focus on how you can use it from a standardization and consistency standpoint. There’s a lot of talk about workflow, especially with dental group practices. So maybe kind of start there and then we’re going to really dive into the financial aspects of it and other things.

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, so my opinion is that which dental bonding agent you use is probably the most important clinical decision that you make in your practice. It is by far and away the thing that you pick up the most when it comes to restoring teeth besides a handpiece, obviously. And then all the decisions you make after that with your workflows are kind of based on that one decision. And so picking the right bonding agent is just incredibly key. And so You want to pick a bonding agent that gives you the most flexibility, that works in the most applications, and is the easiest for you to work with. In my opinion, you can’t go wrong with the Adhese Universal VivaPen for a few different reasons. Number one is it’s considered a universal bonding agent, and we could get deep in the weeds about all the generations of bonding agents, and that’s all semantics that probably most of the listeners of this podcast don’t care about. Honestly, most of the listeners of any podcast probably don’t care about that. But what it allows us to do is it just gives us flexibility in how we apply our bonding agent and specifically how we edge before we apply our bonding agent, and then how we can use that bonding agent for things other than just direct restorations. And so we all know, hey, we use our direct bonding agent or we use our adhesive bonding agent for our composites. But with the adhesive, it gives us much more flexibility to use it for other things. And so ideally, you know, what he should be and can be the only adhesive you need in your office to do any number of procedures. And I think from a workflow perspective, simplicity perspective, overhead perspective, all of that makes a lot of sense. So, you know, I think it all starts with your choice of bonding agent. And in my opinion, you know, you can’t go wrong with the VivaPen and Adhesion Universal.

Bill Neumann : Lisa, you have anything to add to that?

Lisa Kottke: No, great. Agree 100%. I mean, one thing that is consistent in group practice is selecting the right materials are essential for your clinical success and financial and operational health of your group practice. This tool really streamlines that process, reduces waste, and improves efficiency across the board for your group practice.

Bill Neumann : I think as we move on to the next question here, you know, we talk about clinical advantages and maybe one of the concerns sometimes is somebody, you know, a clinician that had been using some of the different generations and maybe using various bonding solutions depending on the materials and the procedures they’re doing. Let’s talk about the clinical advantages with the VivaPen and can you feel confident using that in many clinical situations?

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, so I, you know, I think, I think I was trained, uh, you know, in the early, late nineties, early two thousands at the dental school in San Antonio, that if we didn’t use a fourth generation bonding agent, we were going to go to hell. I mean, that was kind of specifically what we were told that it was far and away the best bonding agent, uh, available and was the gold standard and yada, yada, yada. And for many years I did use a fourth generation bonding agent. And so, And if that doesn’t seem familiar to you, if you’re not used to that language, this would be like a separate bottle that’s a primer and a separate bottle that’s an adhesive. And so while those systems worked and they worked very well for decades of time, they were technique sensitive, number one. Number two, they were expensive because you had a bottle of primer you had to buy and a bottle of adhesive you had to buy. And each of them were like $180. And so it was just doubling up on everything. And then I remember you know, us, my restorative faculty telling us like, oh, it’s always good to go back over, you know, with two coats of it. All right, well, so now it’s like even more expensive. And then you could only use it for direct restorations, right? And fourth generation bonding agents were very technique sensitive, that Denton had to be just the right amount of moisture in it, or else you’d get some post-op sensitivity, you’d get early failure. So all those things, like we put up with all those things, because the science said that fourth generation bonding agents were that much better. But we’re at the point now where universal bonding agents really aren’t any less clinically successful than fourth generation bonding agents, and they are tremendously easier to use, they’re cheaper, and they can be used throughout the practice. So from a perspective of advantages, you know, the Adhese Universal Viva Pen can be used with any composite system. So whatever composite you like, and clinicians like different composites for different reasons. My wife likes one, my wife’s a dentist as well. She likes one composite that I don’t like at all because I find it to be way too waxy, but she loves it. And I like one that’s a little bit more creamy, Uh, and so, you know, we all have our different preferences with that, but you know, with the adhesive universal Viva pen, it works with any of them. So it doesn’t really matter. Um, and then from the, the like intraoperative intraoperatively, uh, perspective when you’re only using a single bottle system and I’m using the word bottle, but we’re really talking about the Viva pen. So the single pen system. It just makes your workflow so much simpler when you’re really just deciding, the really only decision you have to make is which etch technique you’re going to use, how are you going to apply etch to the tooth, and we could talk about that if you wanted to, and then applying the adhesive, and then air-thinning it and light-curing it. And when you would apply the adhesive, specifically in quadrant dentistry, which I think we’re all trained to do, Many times, our assistants, in an effort to be as efficient as possible, dispense our adhesive out of the bottle into a little dappen dish right before we start the bonding process. And that’s fine if you’re doing a single occlusal on upper right for smaller. But if you’re doing kind of serial restorations, the first restoration you do gets the freshest bonding agent, but as time goes by, and sometimes I’ll do two at once, And then I go back and then do a one more and then one more. By the time you get to the third or fourth restoration, your bonding agent isn’t exactly freshest anymore. It’s kind of like the Dale donuts, you know, at the donut shop, like they’re not quite as good anymore. And so that’s the thing that you really avoid. with the VivaPen is that you always have fresh bonding agent. At a click of a button, you get the fresh adhese that flows from that hermetically sealed chamber inside the pen into the little cotton puff cannula tip, and you are literally applying that bonding agent freshly directly to the tooth whenever you need it. So it’s basically on demand. this is really the only system that allows you to do that. Every other system involves the use of either a unit dose type system or a DAP and DISH of some sort. And so you just never know, are you getting the freshest bonding agent possible, but you do with the Adhese VivaPen. And I think that’s a huge, huge component to why you would pick this system.

Bill Neumann : So really unique delivery. You’re saving material. You don’t have to worry about using too much or too little. So it’s just the right amount. Let’s talk about procedural workflows and maybe specifically like what procedures do you think would benefit most from using the VivaPen?

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah. So, you know, in my practice, when I use, when I have a model based system in the past, you know, a lot of times I get the, the area isolated. Let’s say we’re talking about a direct restoration. So we’ll, you know, a basic composite class one or class two. Um, you know, we get to everything isolated. Um, and I’ll look over and I’ll watch my assistant as she puts the drops of the adhesive into the, into the little dappen dish. And we’ll be doing like an MO on number three, right? I don’t need more than one drop, but I’ll see like three drops come out of the bottle and I’ll just like want to strangle my assistant. Cause like, doesn’t she know that that’s $4 a drop and that she just put three, she just put $12 of adhesive out when I really need two. Um, and, and then it just goes away, right? You just like, you can’t put it back in the bottle. It’s gone forever. You never, you never have it back. So that like the ability to control that on my end as a dentist who likes to control stuff is, is a huge, a huge thing. But you know, the, the number one thing you’re going to use this force for direct restorations, right? And then that’s, you know, based on, on ADA data, that’s 75% of the restorations we do are direct. Three out of every four restorations we do are direct. That’s based on the ADA Health Policy Institute, the survey of dental services provided. So it’s the number one thing we do is pick up adhesive. Now that adhesive for a direct restoration could be, you know, an MO on number three. It could be applying attachments for Invisalign. It could be bonding in a class five restoration. and any of those direct type of restorations we do where we’re using resin composite. You can also use adhese for indirect restorations because it does pair and marry with the VarioLink aesthetic cement system. So now instead of having to have a separate primer, that you would have had to have a separate tooth primer, like for instance, in the multi-leak auto mix system, which is a great system, a great cement system that I used for many years that was from Ivoclar. It had a two bottle system that was used just for the cement. Well, now I don’t need to have any of that. I just use my adhese. VivaPen that I already use for my direct restorations, I brush that on the tooth and that’s all I need. So it’s the same pen I can use to submit my crowns, whether they be Emacs or Zirconia, and it’s the same pen I can use my direct restorations. And there’s one other workflow I can use it for, and that is for anti-sensitivity. you know, you’ve got a patient with some root sensitivity, they got a little bit of root exposure. And so, you know, cold zings them, you can literally just isolate that area, click the pen and apply it with the cannula tip to that root, air thin it and cure it and get an anti-sensitivity effect on that exposed root. And that’s a billable feature as well. So now it’s like, you know, it’s this one pen that drives really all the restorative dentistry in my practice, whether it be direct, indirect, anti-sensitivity stuff, placing Invisalign attachments, you know, closing up the screw access holes on a hybrid or an implant restoration, like it’s all of it. You know, it’s the one thing I got to pick up. Anytime we’re using a curing light, we pick up the Adhese Universal Viva Pen and it does all of it. So really that enhanced flexibility of being able to use it in all applications saves us time, saves us headache and saves us money.

Bill Neumann : Lisa, anything you’d like to add there? And I know Dr. Austin really touched on this, you know, I was thinking about like, what additional, what complementary products can you use with this? You talked about VariaLink. Lisa, what’s your experience been like with your customers in the DSO space?

Lisa Kottke: No, I think this product fits into a very efficient workflow. You know, from an Ivoclar perspective, one of the other complementary products that we have in that workflow is an Optirgate, which actually is a retraction product that helps clear the field of view and then using the ergonomic design of the VivaPen to control the application, reduce waste and get a consistent outcome really is favorable for group practices, not only from a operational expense to reduce the waste. And as he mentioned, you know, as they put those one, two, three, four drops in a dappen dish, you know, that you come to the end there where we kind of affectionately call it the nacho cheese effect where it’s thick and you’re again, just not getting the consistency in the application and could compromise clinical outcomes as well.

Bill Neumann : The Optrigate’s a pretty unique product as well, as unique as the VivaPen is to bonding delivery. I think, you know, Optrigate to dental dams, right? So very, very unique system there that you have much ease of use, both on the VivaPen side and on the Optrigate side. Um, okay, let’s move on a little, a little bit. And, you know, we focused on enhancing, you know, the quality of care. And then of course, you know, DSOs, well, everybody, right? Private practice as well. We’re looking at operational and financial objectives. Each practice has that. So talk about how incorporating the VivaPen might align with those strategic goals of a dental group. And maybe Alicia, you can kind of kick that off.

Lisa Kottke: Sure. I think, you know, when it comes down to a lot of times when groups are looking at identifying the correct product for their practice, they may be looking at just the net price of a product. And with the VivaPen, we need to be looking at the number of applications, which is really where the rubber hits the road with financial savings for group practices. In a VivaPen, you have about 180 clicks in a VivaPen. And because you are reducing that waste significantly, that far outweighs using a bottle, which has probably double the amount of milliliters in there, but only has about 80 applications. And considering bonding agents, probably one of the most expensive items being used in a practice, Not only are you saving financially on the cost by reducing waste, but you’re also the ease of use with this can save time. And chair time is something that practices want to preserve as much as possible. So if we can get the patient in and out with clinical consistency by using top quality products that will help save money by reducing waste, as well as saving time is the ideal for group practice.

Bill Neumann : Yeah, and Josh, maybe I’ll ask you this question. In your opinion, a lot of group practices and DSOs have younger clinicians that, you know, they’re maybe fresh out of dental school or don’t have a lot of, you know, experience with bonding outside of dental school using bonding agents. So they get out of dental school, they go to work for a DSO. In your opinion, would you say it’s easier to use a VivaPen, more consistent outcomes for a younger clinician, or would it be better to use maybe one of the other systems?

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, no, I think this is a perfect system to use. Number one is, you know, the one thing that I think a lot of younger clinicians, and I’d say younger, I mean every dentist struggles with this, is getting post-op sensitivity, right? It’s a thing that happens, a certain percentage of registrations are going to get post-op sensitivity. But we can minimize it. And one of the things that is great about the Adhese Viva Pen is that it does have an anti-sensitivity effect in it. And part of that’s because the solvent system is set up in a very specific way so that if you over dry the prep a little bit, which I think most dentists are more prone to over dry than they are to leave the preparation too wet. It’s easier to over dry it than it is to leave it too wet, I would say. just based on how most of us are taught. The solvent system that’s in the VivaPen will help re-fluff and rehydrate that collagen matrix so we get a really good hybrid layer. So I actually get far less sensitivity post-op wise when I use the adhesive VivaPen than I do with other adhesive systems. And so from a confidence perspective, that’s tremendous. And so that really, really helps, I think, young clinicians with that. The other thing that I think young clinicians struggle with is time. I mean, time is important for all of us. I’m a private practice dentist. You look at my practice Instagram and it’s a lot of veneers and full arches and stuff like that. But those are the select cases that make it to Instagram. I’m still doing you know, everyday DO composites, everyday MOs, OBs, OLs, all of those things too. And I’m on Delta. You know, I take a PP, I take some PPOs. And so, you know, they’re not raising my reimbursements. Everything else goes up. You know, the cost of everything else in my practice has gone up, but my reimbursements have stayed the same. So if I want to be as profitable, I only have one choice, and that’s to be faster, more efficient when I work. That’s it. That’s the only choice I have. Uh, other than adding days, I guess, which I, my body doesn’t want me to do. Um, so being faster really helps with that. The one thing that we didn’t mention as far as like pairing. products for success with the Adhese Viva Pen is something called the Blue Face Power Cure Curing Light. And I love curing lights. It’s like this one niche of dentistry. I guess it’s because I was like a Star Wars fan when I was a kid. And so it’s the closest we’ll ever have to a lightsaber. And so I have tons of different curing lights. And the one that I always go back to is a Blue Face Power Cure, because when you’re using the Blue Face Power Cure and Adhese Universal, you can cure on the three second mode for just three seconds, cure your adhesive for just three seconds. Whereas with other curing lights, I’m curing for 10, 15, or 20 seconds. So I’m pairing off 30 to 100% of my curing time right then and there. So that’s another great product that you can pair this with. And if you pick a direct restorative that pairs with that system, like Tetric PowerFill and Tetric PowerFlow, and you’re using a blue face power cure light, you can cure up to four millimeters of product of composite in three seconds as well. So, you know, that’s just a way to tremendously decrease your intraoperative time on direct restorations, which I think is something that we all struggle with. There are at least our least profitable type of restorations. And so we can figure out a way to make them more profitable by doing them faster and more efficiently. I think that’s a win for everybody. It’s a win for the clinician. It’s a win for the regional manager. It’s a win for the clinical director. And it’s a win for the, uh, you know, the, the, the big wigs, uh, at, at home base. So, um, you know, being more efficient with time is just a win for everybody. And that’s part of what this system allows Dennis to be.

Bill Neumann : This is probably a really good time to talk about there’s a workflow trial kit that I know Ivaclar offers, which has a lot of the things that we’ve already mentioned. So it certainly has the VivaPen in there and then some other solutions. And I think it’s actually available. It’s like a free trial. There’s a trial kit available, Lisa. Is that is that right?

Lisa Kottke: That’s correct. It can be requested through any of our local territory support managers. We also have it on social media. It’s been out with a QR code to request the sample kit. And then you have the full support of our local territory managers to come in and help dial in that workflow. And I think it’s great that Dr. Austin brought up about the PowerCure. I can tell you from my experience, you put a PowerCure in most doctors’ hands, or dental assistants are going to have to pry it out. They absolutely love it. The time savings, you know, may seem, you know, upfront, a little bit insignificant, but when you’re actually in there and you’re working, that time adds up. The workflow, when we were talking, Dr. Austin mentioned with the other complementary products like PowerFill, PowerFlow, and the VivaPen, by changing the workflow in these posterior composites, by using the blueface power cure, you’re you’re changing the technique a little bit from going to a layered technique to a bulk fill technique. And it actually reduces the number of steps in that procedure about half. So there’s there’s a significant 10 to 15 minutes most people realize in changing their workflows. And again, time is money. And that’s really important to group practices.

Bill Neumann : And I think as we start to wrap up this podcast, what I’ll do, I’m certainly going to drop, we’ll drop a link for that workflow trial kit for sure. So because we know a lot of the groups, the bigger they are, the more people they have making decisions from a clinical perspective, they have clinical boards. So we can get everybody set up with a trial kit so they can try out not just the VivaPen, but some of the other solutions we talked about. There is no blue face curing light in there, however, though. That’s not free. That would be nice. Certainly, they can get an opportunity to try that out. Lisa, I’m sure you could come out and demo it for them. Let’s talk about the Ivoclar representatives as a resource. So what kind of support does Ivoclar provide? Because, you know, if maybe we’re changing our adhesive solution, our workflow, we’re going to need some support. And if we’ve got one clinician, that’s one thing. If we’ve got 20 or 30, that’s a whole other scenario. So how does Ivoclar really support group practice?

Lisa Kottke: The support from Ivoclar starts from our corporate headquarters. They research, they test, workflows, they create a lot of additional support materials for our clinical team, and spend a lot of time working with our technical and clinical team to educate them on how to properly train offices and help doctors. So there’s a local clinical territory rep in every state. Some of the largest states have more than one. You have that, they’re usually just a phone call or a text away if there’s any questions in the middle of a procedure. They are hands-on. They are right there in the offices. They offer lunch and learns for smaller practices to come in and teach the workflow. They’ll sit chair-side with you and help. And then we also, from a corporate perspective and one of my roles and responsibilities, is to help organize customized education programs. We have a lot of doctors we work with that have used this product for quite a few years. Dr. Austin here is a great example. And so we work with the offices and the groups to create customized training programs, whether you’re one doctor, one office, up to four, five, 10, 50, 100 doctors. We have onsite hands-on classes We have our Ivoclar Academy, which offers a lot of recorded and free CE. And then we also can customize to meet the needs of the individual group practice based on the workflows that they’re looking to implement or even strategic initiatives for the year. Whatever that might be, we are there as a resource, both from a corporate perspective and from the local territory managers.

Bill Neumann : Thanks, Lisa. Dr. Austin, what’s your experience been like? I mean, you have a Ivoclar rep that certainly, you know, calls on you for sure.

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, I needed a recently actually, because my Blueface PowerCure light went out. We used it so much that we burned out the element that connects the battery to the actual light engine of the light. It just stopped turning on one day. And so I called Nate, who is my Ivoclar guy. And Nate was at my office the next day, helped me get everything submitted back to Ivoclar for the repair and gave me a loaner to use. And I’m sure he chuckled because he sees my countertops with all the other curing lights have. And I wouldn’t let him leave my office without letting me have the loaner of the Blueface PowerCare because it’s the only one I really want to use. And so that’s been, you know, it’s part of my team. And, you know, I think a lot of us, when we think of Ivoclar, we think of Ivoclar as Emacs, right? Ivoclar is a company that revolutionized dentistry with Emacs. But in order for Emacs to work, it’s got to be bonded in. And so what company better to help you with bonding in the mouth than the company that brought us the change and the huge tide of aesthetic dentistry with Emacs than Ivoclar. And so, they know how to bond that stuff in too, and their director story ain’t so shabby either. So, it’s a team approach, which I love, and it’s a family-owned company. Uh, and, and they, that, that, that is evident from the top down, um, even to the local rep that it is a, a family company and has been for many years. And, um, you know, it just feels, um, it just feels that way when you, when you work with them.

Bill Neumann : Well, that’s great. That’s that’s a great way to kind of wrap things up here. So, Dr. Austin, if anyone in the audience wants to find out more about you, I know you’re on the lecture circuit. And when we did a quick prep call, you were walking around Toronto speaking there. So they I’m sure they can probably get the opportunity to see you at one of the upcoming dental events. They want to see what you’re doing at Dental Economics or want to reach out to you. What’s the best way to do that?

Dr. Joshua Austin: Yeah, I say anywhere on social media at Joshua Austin DDS, except for Snapchat, because I’m 45 years old. Any 45 year old man on Snapchat is up to nefarious things. And I’m not on TikTok because I take cholesterol medication. So they don’t let people who take Lipitor do lip sync videos on TikTok. So really, Instagram is a place to find me there. Otherwise, dental economics. And yeah, you said I was in Toronto last week. It’s not always so glamorous and nice. I’m in a hotel room right now in Lubbock, Texas. You know, it’s for every Toronto, there’s a lot of Lubbocks and Midlands and El Paso’s and those kind of places. So it’s a glamorous life, let me tell you.

Bill Neumann : There you go. And we’ll drop some of those social media handles so you can reach out to or at least follow what Dr. Austin’s doing on Instagram and also see what he’s doing over at Dental Economics. And Lisa, if there are any clinicians or anybody that’s a leader at a DSO that’s interested in finding out more about the Adhese Universal VivaPen or Maybe they want to get their hands on one of those workflow trial kits. How do they do that? And how do they get in touch with you?

Lisa Kottke: Great question. So, you know, most of the, if they’re looking for a rep, the best resource, they can go to, find my rep, type in their zip code. They’ll give that rep, they give them the rep’s name and contact information to reach out. Or they can just go to and ask a question. And again, a representative will route that directly to the right territory manager for them. For myself, I am part of a team of four that cover the United States from a national DSO perspective. Again, all of our contact information is on our website as well.

Bill Neumann : Okay, and we’ll make sure we drop the contact information in there so you can find Lisa and any one of the other group practice representatives. And yeah, you can always reach out to us here at Group Dentistry Now, we’ll put you in touch with the right people. But so we really appreciate the conversation. I love these clinician corners. It brings me back to my days, wheeling my bag into the dental offices and opening it up. And, you know, hey, doc, what do you want to say? And fortunately, you know, it was we had some we had some great products. Ivaclar always drove me crazy because the knowledge that the reps had at Ivaclar was second to none. And I mean that truthfully. One of the companies out there that the idea I think was always to know more about your product than any clinician would. And I think certainly Ivaclar has that down. So thank you Lisa and Dr. Austin for being on the Group Dentistry Now Show. Thanks everybody for watching us today and until next time. I’m Bill Neumann and this is the Group Dentistry Now Show.