The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice of the DSO Industry

Welcome to the #1 DSO Podcast!

What Makes Subscription Dentistry a Superior Business Model?

The dental industry has been hesitant to embrace the subscription care model, even as other healthcare sectors thrive on its transformative potential. One key challenge lies in the industry’s deep-rooted dependence on traditional insurance and fee-for-service models, that don’t optimize treatment access for patients or reimbursements for practices.

In this episode, Dave Monahan, CEO of Kleer and Membersy, dives into how subscription business strategies are transforming the industry by improving patient engagement and loyalty while enabling practices and DSOs to grow revenue and create a recurring revenue stream.

Why tune in?

Discover how you can delight patients with subscription-based care
Explore how you can unlock a large revenue opportunity sitting in your practices today
Quantify the impact of subscription dentistry on patient retention, treatment acceptance, and revenue
Learn how easy it is to adopt a subscription model within your group or DSO

To learn more about Kleer and Membersy visit https://kleer.dental/gdn25

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DSO podcast transcript:

Bill Neumann: Welcome, everyone, to the Group Dentistry Now show. I’m Dole Neumann. And thanks for joining us today. Whether you’re listening in or watching us, we appreciate it. We have a regular on today. Dave has been on the podcast multiple times. Dave Monahan, CEO of Clear Membership. Welcome back to the show. Good to see you.

Dave Monahan: Thanks, Bill. Yeah, it’s good to be back. Happy New Year.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, happy New Year to you too. And Dave is not too far away from our corporate headquarters here. We’re both outside of Philadelphia and really excited to talk to him about his thoughts on 2025, what ClearMembersy is doing with subscription dentistry, and just kind of talk about some of the opportunities in the industry right now with a model like this. So for the folks that maybe have missed the couple of podcasts that you’ve been on, last one, last podcast we had Dave on, he was talking about the, or announcing the merger of Clear and Membership to create Clear Membership. It wasn’t too long ago. So maybe a little bit about your background and then, you know, kind of take us from Clear, you know, the origins up to the merger.

Dave Monahan: Cool. Yeah, and I’ll do it pretty quickly. So, yeah, so I founded Clear back in 2018, and we grew it from nothing. I was the founder and first employee to about 50 or 60 people over the course of 2018 out to 2024. And what we were really focused on was small and emerging groups. And we did a really good job there. In parallel to that, people may know members who was focusing on the DSO space and offering subscriptions into the DSO space. And so we’ve always admired each other. We always thought each other provided great products, great services, and got really nice results for our customers. We ended up merging the companies in May of twenty twenty four. So it’s been in roughly eight months or so, seven or eight months. And we’re past the full integration process. And the teams are executing, working together. The solutions are together and we’re just moving forward. So it’s been a great journey. I really enjoyed the time, both the clear and now with clear members. And it’s as you said, Bill, we got a lot of opportunity sitting in front of us. I’d love to share more.

Bill Neumann: That’s great. One last question before we get on to talk a little bit about the subscription dentistry and the state of the dental industry. Your background before you started Clear, members.

Dave Monahan: So yeah, I came from the tech world. So I actually started as an engineer for Northrop Grumman. We worked on sensors for aircraft, fighter aircraft, and also for drones. I moved from there. I got an MBA, actually worked for a couple of small companies, then joined Microsoft and spent about seven or eight years at Microsoft. I went up the ranks there, ran a few of their businesses. and then left Microsoft and started my own company, and we focused on sensors for what weren’t on your body, so they’re wireless sensors, and the sensors themselves would track things like your cardiovascular system, your fitness levels, a bunch of things, but they wirelessly sent their information through devices, eventually phones, back when we first started the company, there were no, there was not, Bluetooth wasn’t on phones, so we had to create dongles for them, but over time, We created sensors that talk to your phone. And we ended up selling that company back in 2016. I had really no experience with the dental market except for I went to the dentist every six months. And that was I ran into somebody who owned six dental practices. And I started talking to him, got very intrigued because he shared with me the issues that dental practices have with insurers and also the trouble they have getting their patients to come in more often, right? And just making sure they’re engaged. So I dug in, did market research in 2016, 2017. Based on market research, started clear in 2018.

Bill Neumann: Thanks, Dave. So let’s talk a little bit about what ClearMembership does. We’ll talk about subscription dentistry. Maybe we should talk about how that differs from traditional insurance or fee-for-service models.

Dave Monahan: Cool. Yeah. So, um, yeah, subscription dentistry at a high level, uh, as a dental practice, you can create multiple subscriptions for your patients. They, uh, pay either on an annual or a monthly basis, just like any other subscription you would have like a Netflix or a. Costco, or Hulu, whatever. So you can create these care plans yourself based on what you’re trying to do with the care plans as a dental practice, and also what your patient demographics look like. So you can tailor these to older patients, to younger patients, to perio patients, and so on. So you get multiple subscriptions you’re offering to your patients. And so how do they differ on the insurance side? You know, the big difference is you’re in control. So you’re controlling what treatment is included, you’re controlling the fee schedule, you’re controlling the pricing, like the what you might call it a premium on the insurance side, you know, it’s really a subscription payment on the subscription side, but you’re controlling all of it, you get to decide that there’s no hassle. So there’s no, claim submissions. There’s no adjudication. There’s no denials. That doesn’t exist within subscription dentistry. So on the dentist side, you get all that. You control. You get no hassles. On the patient side, these plans are simple. They’re transparent. They’re affordable. They’re very different than insurance. Insurance typically will have a 20-page agreement that a patient needs to sign. Typically, in a membership plan or subscriptions, it will be two or three lines. that a patient needs to understand. Very simple, very easy, just like the Netflix and Costco’s of the world, right? And so it’s very simple for them to sign up and manage and commit to care. So that’s relative to insurance. Relative to fee-for-service, I’m sorry, most of my market research actually, when I did it prior to signing Clear, was focused on fee-for-service patients, so cash patients. And what we learned is they feel exposed when they walk into a dental practice. So number one, they’re worried about the cost of care. And they always think they’re paying too much because they have no insight into what they should be paying. And they’re very uncomfortable negotiating. They’re not going to negotiate price with you. And so what do they do? They avoid visits. They don’t accept much treatment. And so the subscriptions are designed to get those cash patients to come in more often, accept more care, be loyal, and be more comfortable. you know, interacting and engaging with your dental practice.

Bill Neumann: So CLEAR has been around for a while, CLEAR Membership 2024, but even prior to you founding CLEAR, there have been, whether they’ve been in-house programs or other organizations doing things, maybe similar, but it seems like there’s a slow adoption in the dental industry to subscription dentistry. It’s not like that in some other health care verticals. So why do in other industries? So why do you think that is?

Dave Monahan: It’s a good question. And I would say right now, just from a perspective of what percentage of practices actually adopted memberships and subscriptions, I would say it’s about 20%, 25% across the market. So it’s not nothing. But given all the benefits of these subscriptions, the question is, why is it that 100%? We’ll never get to 100%, but it really should be 80% or 90%. And so to your question, why is it slow? I think it’s because of two reasons. I think first, there’s misconceptions about what fee-for-service patients or cash patients do. So when we talk to practices, they typically will assume that their fee-for-service patients are their best patients. And they assume that they’re coming in a lot, they’re accepting a lot of care, they’re paying full price. And what we actually see, so we get to, you know, we integrate with the practice management systems of the practices on our platform, and we get to see the data. And so the actual data, the average for cash paying or fee-for-service patients is they come in once every one and a half years. That’s the average. Let me say that again, once every one and a half years. They also, on average, get a day of treatment discount of 14%. And so, a lot of practices think these patients are paying full price, but they’re using a lot a day of treatment discount in order to get them to commit to care. And so, when you compare that to membership plan patients, membership plan patients come in one and a half times a year. So, instead of one and a half times every two years, it’s one and a half times per year. And so, and they accept about twice the amount of care. There’s this misconception of what fee-for-service patients do, and the description fixes that. But anyway, so there’s trying to get practices over the hurdle of understanding that and then committing to it. That’s number one. Number two is what I would call Stockholm syndrome, if you’ve ever heard of that term. I think it was back in the 70s, there was a bank robbery and some people were held hostage and they became close to the hostage takers. And afterwards, they actually refused to testify against them. And I think insurers have been holding dentists hostage for years. And just to understand it, about 80% of all revenue that comes into a dental practice is driven through insurers. And so it’s just hard to move away from that. It’s been decades, right? And these models just don’t change. And people have just become used to it. And it’s become repetitive and just a habit. On the positive side, it’s getting easier. We’re seeing a lot more offices move away from at least one insurer. So about 30% of offices dropped an insurer in 2024. About 40% expect to drop another insurer in 2025. And it’s really because inflation is driving costs up. Reimbursements are stagnant. And so they’re getting pinched. The practices are getting pinched where they can’t make a lot of profit given those two dynamics. So anyway, it’s becoming where the pain is now forcing a lot of offices to realize that they should probably put some alternative payment options out there for their patients and start to move away a bit from the issuers.

Bill Neumann: So a couple of stats I just want to reinforce there. You said right now you think it’s about 20 to 25% of dental practices are using some type of subscription-based model and 80% of revenue coming in to dental practices is through some type of insurer. Correct. That 20 to 25% Since you started measuring that and maybe when you started measuring that, what’s the growth been like? I mean, we talked about it being slow, but when you started, was it doing your market research with clear remembrancy? Where were you at then? What was that percentage?

Dave Monahan: Yeah, back in 2018, it was like 5%. And so it’s grown a lot. Yeah, it keeps growing. It’s growing very aggressively. So that’s the positive news. It’s growing aggressively, and it continues to grow very aggressively. And it’s just we’re moving. Like if you look at your market adoption curves, again, I come from the technology world. So every technology and application goes through a curve. It’s like a bell curve. And where we are, like in the very beginning of a market, it’s called the visionaries. And the visionaries will be the ones who first adopt the solution. And then you move into the early majority, then the late majority. And where we are right now is we’re transitioning from the early adopters into the early majority. And we’re seeing that. And that just takes a little time. It usually takes a little while. It needs to get momentum. People need to feel comfortable. They’re more pragmatic buyers. And so they need to see more proof. And once you get through that, the first iteration of that, then the market starts to adapt much quicker. I think we’re right at the edge of that is where I’d put it.

Bill Neumann: So you mentioned that there are, when you adopt a subscription plan, patients come back more often. What about some other untapped revenue opportunities that a subscription model really can unlock for a dental group?

Dave Monahan: Yeah, we bucket these into sort of four areas. So the first one is what you mentioned. So you will improve your active fee-for-service or active cash-paying patients will come in. You’ll be more engaged, I guess, at the end of the day, sort of the net of it. But they’ll come in more often. They’ll accept more treatment. They’ll drive, obviously, higher revenue. And just to give you the stats on that, on average, offices have about 250 active fee-for-service patients. So these are patients who come in at least once a year. I mentioned they feel exposed, and they don’t come in as often as they should. And once they get on the subscription, you’ll see the visits double. You’ll see the treatment acceptance double. You’ll see production go up two to three times. And the net of all that is anywhere between, that’ll drive about $150,000 to $200,000 of revenue, additional revenue for an office. more engaged, you know, fee-for-service patients is number one. Number two is you’ll retain your new patients. So just, you know, the average new patients, about 40% of them will come back, which means 60% of your new patients on average don’t come back to your office. When they buy a membership plan, it gets, it drives that number between 90 and 100 percent of those new patients come back. So, instead of just, you know, bringing a new patient in and churning through a lot of those, you can keep them. So, we tell practices if a new patient comes in and they’re a cash-based patient, you know, make sure they get on the membership plan because they will come back and buy more care from you over time. The third area is reactivating your dormant patients. So on average, offices have about 1,500 dormant patients in their practice management system database. So these are patients who have not come back in 18 months. And many stop coming in because of cost. And so we help practices reactivate those dormant patients. And if you can just get 10% of them to come back, that’s 150 new patients. That will drive about $150,000 of production in your practice in a year. And then lastly, you can attract new cash patients to your office. So we see things like membership referrals, so somebody who already bought a membership, referring new patients into the practice. We have practices going out into local businesses, local community groups, and offering their subscriptions out there and driving new patients in as well. So four areas, more active fee-for-service patients, retain your new patients, reactivate your dormant patients, and attract new patients.

Bill Neumann: You can chuck full of some great statistics there. You know, one thing that stood out, and everybody seems to be focused on new patient acquisition. You just mentioned 60% of those patients don’t come back. So 40% do, 60% don’t. If you get them on a subscription model, you’re saying 90 to 100%, right? It’s like 90%. So we go from 40% to 90% of those patients coming back. So all that money that was spent marketing to drive those new patients in is actually gonna pay off with the subscription based model.

Dave Monahan: Yeah, exactly. And and the reason I get the question, well, why do they come back? And the reason they come back is they’re committing to care, right? They’re paying a subscription. And just think about any subscription that you purchase. Like, do you reuse the service? And more than likely, yes, there might be some you don’t. But most of them you do reuse your Costco membership, your Amazon Prime membership, right? Your Netflix membership. Like there’s a reason you bought that and that is you’re committing to that. And you typically will use that at a very high rate. And that’s exactly what we see with dental subscriptions.

Bill Neumann: Right, I do think we, as a society, people are getting more comfortable with subscriptions. It’s something that I think in some cases consumers expect. So it’s probably very refreshing at a dental practice, maybe where they’re not expecting that. And I think probably the younger generation does, because they don’t know any different. But people that are a little bit older, like me, I think I’d be pleasantly surprised if my dentist would offer some type of subscription plan because I know my habits and you’re right. If I have a membership somewhere, I want to get my value out of it. I’m committed to the brand, to the organization and I’m going to make sure that $30, $50 a month that I’m investing in, I’m going to get a benefit and then some out of it.

Dave Monahan: Exactly.

Bill Neumann: So beyond the untapped revenue opportunities and the new patient opportunity, which still at that stat of 60% not coming back in new patients is shocking, but not surprising. I guess when you really kind of think about it and all the money is invested in trying to get new patients in all the time, you would need to do that if you could keep them. What additional advantages do you really see using a subscription-based model like ClearMembership for the practice?

Dave Monahan: So if I think about the feedback I get from our customers, one is actually, and this has been really relevant lately, is controlling the fee schedule is a big deal, especially during inflationary times. And so we just hear that come back all the time, where they’re stuck with insurance reimbursements, and they can’t do anything, even though their costs are going up. on the membership plan side, they can adjust that fee schedule. We recommend they adjust the fee schedule every year. And so you can manage that relative to inflation. That’s one big one. Next one, the recurring revenue is something that I don’t think offices get it in the very beginning. But once they build this recurring revenue up to be hundreds of thousands of dollars, they start to realize, I don’t have to have my hands in the mouth in order to generate revenue. So this revenue is coming in no matter where I am. It’s on weekends, it’s at night, it’s when I’m on vacation. So that recurring revenue stream really becomes valuable. And it’s interesting, I had a practice that basically built up that recurring revenue stream to pay all of their variable costs or monthly costs in the practice, like their rent and their equipment, their office rental, their equipment rentals. And leases, like anything they had recurring, ended up getting paid by that recurring revenue piece, which was really nice for them, because everything else became profit on top of that, basically. Reducing insurance dependence, I mentioned that before. So we see a lot of practices will implement the membership plan prior to starting to work through dropping insurers, so that they have an alternative for their insured patients when they drop an insurer. And that works really well. And then lastly, this is an interesting stat. Again, we get to see this because we see the practice management data that the membership plan patients cancel 50% to 75% less appointments than a non-subscription patient. And so again, that’s a commitment. They’re going to come in and take advantage of the benefits that they’re paying for. So it’s a really nice sort of side benefit of the membership plan.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, it sure is when you think about it from the business perspective. And you’re creating this consistent cash flow that you can count on each month. And I like that example that you gave about, you know, having really, you know, the cash flow coming in, that expected cash coming in from the subscriptions, handling your costs. And it just makes a… And I think a lot of practices don’t have that consistency. So from month to month, they can see these wide swings in revenue that comes in and this evens things out quite a bit more. Exactly. Yeah.

Dave Monahan: It’s a pleasant, like I said, upside. They don’t think about it. And then once it gets going and you get enough patience on it, it just happens.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, fiscal peace of mind. So if we’ve got 75% of the people listening aren’t using a subscription plan right now, maybe it’s a little less. Our audience is a little bit more sophisticated. I’d say it’s 65%. So, for those teams that are considering a subscription-based model, especially after hearing this conversation, hearing some of the statistics that you’re sharing, the data, what are really some steps that they should take in order to evaluate whether this makes sense for their dental practice or their group?

Dave Monahan: Yeah, so I would align it to the opportunities I talked about. So if you have the capability, I know a lot of your groups do have this capability, is review your data, right? So take a look at your data. How many fee-for-service or cash patients do you have? What’s their treatment and visitation patterns? Are they sort of similar to what I was talking about, right? Where they’re not coming in a lot, they’re not accepting a lot of care. And how many of those patients exist in your office, right? So understand that. I’d also look at your new patient retention data and see, you know, what percent come back. I would review your PPO fee schedules. We see a lot of offices that have not done that for a long time. And just so you know, the average discount provided through PPOs is 35 to 40 percent. I know people probably might have heard that data before, but again, we see it day in and day out. That’s significant, obviously. It’s very difficult to drive profit with those types of discounts. So I’d look at your fee schedules and see how they’re working for you. And I’d also look at compliance. So there’s regulatory compliance associated with offering a membership, so they’re both state and federal level. So probably take a look at that. Maybe have your attorneys take a look at that. And then from a selfish perspective, obviously you can do all that. I mean, you can reach out to us. You go up to clear.com and book an appointment. And we have consultants who will talk to you about a lot of that and start to get you on the right path if you do want to move towards a membership model. But you can do your own homework or you can sort of leverage some of our resources to take a look at some of those things.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, that’s great. And we’ll make sure we drop the URL. It’s easy, K-L-E-E-R.com. And we’ll make sure that you have access to that link and the link that you can sign up for a demo as well in the show notes. We’ll put that there. How about some common misconceptions about subscription plans? And we do have some people out there, because you do have, and we did a webinar with you a while back, and we were doing some poll questions, and one of the questions I know we asked was, how many people were running in-house plants? And it was kind of surprising, I remember the results, there were quite a few that were. So maybe just talk about some common misconceptions, because you do have some people probably still doing in-house, some people that aren’t doing anything at all.

Dave Monahan: Yeah, so on the it’s a good one. So on the in house side, we do see offices running their own and they’ll try to run it either within a practice patient system or spreadsheet. And what you see with those is you just at some point it starts to collapse on itself. And so You have a lot of things you need to administer within these membership plans, from simple things, right, to like signing somebody up, making sure they understand their plan, they get a document, right, that details the benefits. Like you have to do that stuff, one, from a patient perspective, just seeing the value in it, and number two, that there’s regulatory requirements of doing that. So, one is the sign-up and the things that go with sign-up and things like offering, you know, giving them a summary of the plan all the way through all the communication you have to do with the patients up to renewals. Again, lots of regulatory requirements on the communication and how you do renewals. Renewals, you know, when somebody does it in-house, they typically have somebody calling a patient The patients typically won’t renew unless they walk into the office. So you lose the whole recurring revenue stream. And so enabling that to happen automatically and renewals just happen in the background, like all other subscriptions. There’s lots of stuff. From a misconception perspective, I think a lot of practices think, I’ll do this on my own. And they get into trouble at some point. And it just doesn’t. It’s not as effective as using a platform. So I think that’s one big misconception. I mentioned one of the other ones before. I’ll just reiterate it. A lot of people think that their fee-for-service patients are coming in a lot and accepting a lot of care and are paying full price. And that’s not what the data shows. So I mentioned they, on average, come in once every one and a half years. And the average discount that they get is 14%. A lot of practices will say, I’m not going to do a membership plan because that means I have to give a discount to my fee-for-service patients. And that is, you’re already doing that, and you’re not getting the results you’re going to get through the subscription. So the average on our platform is a 15% discount and an improvement of two to three times more visits and two to three times more production. So I think you’d make that trade-off any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It’s a really simple equation. It’s just got to get through the misconception of these patients are coming in and accepting a lot of care without a subscription. And then I see one other one just on the side with the insurers. A lot of practices are a little hesitant on the membership side because they think, as part of that, they have to drop insurers. And you don’t. You can have both of them working side by side. What it does is it enables you to start to have the conversation on the insurance side to decide if you’re going to start dropping some of the smaller insurers that aren’t working for you anyway because reimbursements are too low. It provides a wedge and a leverage point over time. But I always tell practices, don’t just turn the spigot off on insurers. You’re going to have some that you’re very dependent on. There’s going to be others that you aren’t. Some actually will perform well. There’s some that will be profitable, some that won’t. So don’t think you have to suddenly change things. I we we always tell people be gradual about be smart about it, right? Put this in place and then maybe over time you gradually start to move away from some of these shores. But work with the you know getting on network with the small ones that aren’t working for your practice first and then you can slowly move up. It can be a multiple year process. It doesn’t have to be right away.

Bill Neumann: Final wrap-up question for you here. Again, the crystal ball question that I tend to like to ask at the end of these podcasts. Dental industry in the next five years, and how do you see clear members and subscription models playing a role in those next five years in the industry?

Dave Monahan: Yeah, so five years. Actually, the place I’d reference is probably ADA, Health Policy Institute, and some of the data that they’ve recently put out, if you haven’t seen it. And so what are the issues that dentistry is dealing with right now? It’s difficult to hire. Costs are rising. It’s difficult to deal with insurance networks. and attracting patients and engaging patients. Like those are the big four at the end of the day. I don’t think that’s changing anytime soon. A lot of those are recurring from last year and have occurred from the year before. And so what do I see? I see, you know, applications and technology starting to take hold that are gonna help with those things. So making like, since people are having trouble hiring people, right? And their costs are going up. How do you start to automate processes? And putting things in place that scale your team, right? Don’t bog down your team. And we’re on the forefront of that. So things like starting to integrate applications. I mentioned that, like integrating with practice management system. That enables us to automate time-consuming tasks. Like, enrolling patients can be automatic because you can just pull the data in from the practice management system versus entering it. You can automatically track benefit status, so nobody needs to try to figure out, oh, did the user claim in their exam, their x-ray that was in the membership plan, you can just see it. Hosting payments into your practice management system, like automating a lot of things. Performance management, so understanding, I mentioned a bunch of stats, right? You’d like to see that on your own. You’d like to see that for your office. you know, comparing membership plan patients to fee-for-service to PPO. You know, you can also do things like enable new value propositions. Like, one thing we’re working on is, like, understanding your paramix and optimizing the paramix. So rather than it’s just jumbo of PPOs that you’re in network with, let’s start to isolate and understand which ones are working and which ones aren’t. I’m just giving sort of a slice of how we think about those things, but I think at a broad level in the next five years within dental practices, you’re going to see a lot of integration between applications that enables a lot of value by bringing combinations of information and data together. And then with that, in conjunction with that, No surprise here. I’m not going to talk anything anything new here is AI and machine learning. There’s no doubt that that’s going to have an impact on the on the on the market already seeing applications out there. You’re going to see more and more like we’re working with AI. And we’re at the end of the day, we’re trying to do a couple of things with it. And I think everybody is is how do you do more with less? Again, coming back to the resource constraints, how difficult is a hire, right? How expenses are going up? You got to start managing that. And AI and machine learning can help with that. And then how do I uncover more opportunities in my office, right? you know, increase patient engagement, you know, increase things like treatment acceptance and so on. So I just think you’re going to see a lot more applications. You know, it’s going to proliferate across basically every application is going to have some type of A.I. associated with it. So I say that combination of that with the integration of these applications and sort of the automation of things, I think is going to be a big driver. I wouldn’t even say in five years, I’d say next year or two, you’re going to see big impact of those.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, absolutely. I agree on the AI for sure. And I just hope that it’s moving so quickly, the advancements in technology, that you have people at your group practice in DSO that understand these changes and opportunities. And, you know, you’re able to capitalize on that. And having somebody, a partner like ClearMembersy that’s using AI and really looking at the, you know, cutting edge solutions. And you’re right. You kind of go back to ADA and Health Policy Institute and year after year, at least the past four or five years, it really has been the same issues over and over again. And, you know, the workforce issue is not going away. It doesn’t seem maybe a little less of a challenge than it was a couple of years ago, but it’s still a huge challenge. And it’s one of the top three or four for sure. So thanks, Dave. Great to have you back on again. Always a lot of fun to catch up. And you’ve got a lot of great information. And again, those stats and data that you shared are really super impactful. And we’re going to see the 2025 is going to be an interesting year for sure. If anyone wants to find out more about CLEAR, I actually have a special URL that you can go to. It’s CLEAR, K-L-E-E-R dot dental. forward slash GDN, like Group Dentistry Now, GDN 25. So clear.dental forward slash GDN 25, and you can get a demo. We’ll drop that in the show notes. But thanks, Dave. We really appreciate it. And we’ll see you around the dental meeting circuit in 2025, I think. Awesome.

Dave Monahan: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Bill. I really appreciate it.

Bill Neumann: Great. Thank you, everybody, for watching us today. And until next time, this is the Group Dentistry Now show.