The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice of the DSO Industry – Episode 226

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Welcome to The Group Dentistry Now Show: The Voice of the DSO Industry!

Updates from the ADSO: From licensure portability to the upcoming Next Level event. 

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ADSO Update 2025 DSO podcast transcript:

Welcome to the Group Dentistry Now Show, the voice of the DSO industry. Join us as we talk with industry leaders about their challenges, successes, and the future of group dentistry. With over 200 episodes and listeners in over 100 countries, we’re proud to be ranked the number one DSO podcast. For the latest DSO news, analysis, and events, And to subscribe to our DSO Weekly e-newsletter, visit GroupDentistryNow.com. We hope you enjoyed today’s show.

Bill Neumann: Welcome, everyone, to the Group Dentistry Now show. I’m Bill Neumann, and thanks for listening in today. We have a regular guest here that is back. I’d like to check in with Andrew Smith, who is the CEO of the ADSO, which is the Association of Dental Support Organizations. And Andrew is on the show at least a couple of times a year. But thanks for joining us again, Andrew.

Andrew Smith: Thank you, Bill. Always great to be on with you and looking forward to our conversation. So thank you.

Bill Neumann: And for maybe some newer listeners, Andrew, would you mind letting the audience know a little bit about who the Association of Dental Support Organizations is, the role they play in the industry, and then a little bit about your background?

Andrew Smith: Sure. No, no, no problem whatsoever. So, ADSO, we’re a member-led, member-driven organization, non-for-profit. So we work on numerous issues and we’ve got quite a few and very diverse memberships. So those that have anywhere from five offices all the way up to those that have north of a thousand offices and Um, you know, it’s really helping propel, uh, the DSO industry forward. That’s the, the crux of it. And we’re focused on numerous topics, as I mentioned. So the first being, uh, government relations and public policy related issues that benefit the full industry. Um, second in a big, big focus we continue to double down on over the last, uh, several years is membership programming. Um, you know, really wanting to be that facilitator of conversations and talking about best practices, educational opportunities, just bringing a lot of different topics that are meaningful to our membership, the CEOs, their C-suite, and the rest of their team on how they can continue to support dentists, I think that’s a very big key. And then also that networking component, that’s very, very big. And then of course, we also do quite a bit of work in the workforce development piece. So we interact consistently with dental students and talking about what a DSO isn’t, what it is, opportunities, and really just making sure that students are educated about the different types of practice models that are out there, right? So that is, in a nutshell, you know, who we are. And then I guess my background is very, very quickly, you know, worked in Washington, D.C. for a long time on campaigns in government. As I like to joke and say, I’m a recovering lobbyist myself. So I sometimes miss the day to day lobbying activity. But that’s my background. And I’ve been at ADSO now since the spring of 2021.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, actually the ADSO, we’ve worked with ADSO here at Group Dentistry now for probably over a decade. And fun fact, it used to be called the Dental Group Practice Association. I think that was the first inception before the DSO terminology came out. I don’t think DSO as an acronym existed before then. So yeah, the organization’s been around for quite a long time and has done a lot of good for the industry. And also really, like you mentioned, the educating younger clinicians and clinicians that maybe were in solo practice to learn more about the different models out there and just the different opportunities that exist in the space that maybe didn’t prior to maybe 20, 30 years ago. So it’s pretty interesting how the industry has evolved. The ADSO has talked about the advocacy side of things. We’ll talk about that in a minute. But you also have a couple of events every year. And the one that’s coming up in the next little over a month is the next level. So it’s called the ADSO Next Level. And that is November 5th through the 7th in San Diego at the Manchester Grand Hyatt. It’s right in the marina there. And tell us a little bit about who the target audience is for that next level event and then a little bit about that event.

Andrew Smith: Yeah, no, thanks, Bill. And I should also add too, you know, anybody that’s out there listening and, you know, if your organization is a DPO, like a dental provider organization, anyone that is helping support the dentist, um, on the business side, we’ve got many different, you know, iterations of names and things that are part of the association. I forgot to mention that on the front end, but, um, as, as Bill mentioned, yes, we’ve, we’ve got, um, the event next level November 5th through 7th in San Diego at the Manchester Grand Hyatt. And, and this event came about because our fastest growing segment is what we call the mid-market, you know, those that have, you know, anywhere from, you know, five, 10, all the way up to 50, 75 offices. And what we had seen from that membership component that was really coming into ADSO was a focus on. we know a lot about the big picture stuff, you know, why is AI revolutionizing, you know, both the clinical and non clinical side, and, you know, other types of different things that are happening. But what we’ve heard from the membership is how do I practically implement this product or products? Or how do I how do I actually do it? So next level is much more focused on that granular, how do you implement and how do you you know, no pun intended, take your organization to the next level. So you’ll definitely at the event, hear from kind of broad topics, you know, we’ve got a great panel on the opening day, you know, kind of the economic outlook, we’ve got a great economist coming. And then we also have an individual from Pacific Dental, Taylor Hawes, who’s their CFO, you know, looking at dental and, and really that, you know, big picture stuff. But then, you know, we really go into these breakout sections, and we usually do it based on location size. So it really meets the needs of that CEO or C-suite member. And it’s really, like I said, looking at how do you grow your organization? What are things you’re not thinking about? How do you get to that next level? And they’re all going to be broken out as well by functional areas too, right? So if you’re more focused on human resources, there’s one for you. If you’re focused more on technology, and operations, there’s one for you. Same with, you know, finance, same with, you know, a whole host of other topics. So kind of a, you know, multiple avenues, and really focused on groups that are in that particular location size.

Bill Neumann: And I mean, it’s nice because you actually even have some breakout sessions that are specifically focused, like one to 10 locations go to this breakout session, 10 to 30, this one 30 to 30 plus. So it is, you know, I guess it is aptly named Next Level. And we’ve been to a couple of the Next Level meetings, and you really do see a lot of these and two to, you know, 52 to 75 location groups there that are in some stage of scaling and are looking for solutions and ways to implement and learn from, you know, maybe some that have already walked the path before and can really help, you know, ease that scaling pain because it can be pretty challenging as you scale up and you know, ad locations, there seems to be these areas, you know, where you hit a certain number of practices and the founders get stuck, so to speak, and need a little bit of help trying to get to that, you know, next step. So this is really the event. for that. And if you were at the ADSO meeting earlier this year, it’s actually in the same location, great location, that spot in San Diego right on the water, the Manchester Grand Hyatt is a great spot. And looks like there are still rooms available on the block. You can go to the ADSO.org website and then click on the events tab and you can get to the event listing and register for it. Or you can also go to groupdentistrynow.com forward slash events and you’ll see the event there as well. And it’ll jump you into the ADSL website. So yeah, great, great event. And that is coming up again, November 5th through 7th. So, and it’s not that we’re there. I mean, it’s gonna be rapidly approaching for sure.

Andrew Smith: And I would also add too, that this is a great event, you know, and one of the real thesis, thesis, I should say of ADSO is being that convener and facilitator of conversation. So there’s networking opportunities, not just between, you know, DSO leaders, but also industry partners. And I think that’s a huge piece at this level that we’ve heard, uh, is about, you know, the connectivity to their fellow peers and also seeing what type of products and solutions are out there. And it’s a smaller event, right? So the summit we have that Bill referenced is usually around, you know, 1,200 people. This one will be, you know, more like 300. And it really fosters that ability to network and kind of see what’s out there. So I hope, I appreciate, Bill, you putting up all the particulars there and hope to see a lot of folks at the event.

Bill Neumann: And we’ll drop a link in the show notes. So if you want to register, you can do that really easily. All right, let’s talk a little bit about policy. And I know there’s a lot going on, you know, and you work on a lot of different things all at once there at the ADSO. And so a couple of things, I know you’ve been working hard on license portability. So I want to talk about that. But then the other thing that I’ve noticed is there’s a lot of anti-private equity legislation, or specifically when it comes to health care, it seems like it’s cropping up in different states. So I’m sure, given that there are a lot of ADSO members and other DSOs that have some private equity backing, that that is probably of interest to your members. So I’d love to get your feedback on that and if the ADSO is working on anything when it comes to some of that legislation.

Andrew Smith: Yeah, no, Bill, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, I think two of the biggest issues we’ve had over the last several years before I jump into the private equity side and, you know, that, which is really important is we’ve seen a ton of focus on the license reportability as well as insurance reform. And for those that are unaware of what license reportability is, it’s the ability to have a dentist and a hygienist move into a location based on the existing state where they are licensed. And it, again, is really an access to care issue. And so if a state has enacted the model legislation, then there’s reciprocity between those states. And it’s because we continue to see movement of population. And as we know, I think only 40% of Americans or something like that see a dentist per year. And a lot of it has to do with not just affordability, but access. And there are still tons of dental shortage areas around. So we’ve worked with the American Dental Association, with the American Dental Hygienist Association and have put through model legislation. And we needed seven states to have that go live. I believe they’re now 12. It should be finalized and implemented shortly, but that’s been a huge piece. And then obviously on the insurance side and just making sure that the ship is right size and equal between things like network leasing, assignment of benefits, a virtual credit card, just, you know, things that we need to kind of right-size to make sure that the patient is utilizing all their benefits and the provider is being paid accordingly. But to, you know, Bill, to your main point, what we have seen in a lot of states, and this is a bipartisan focus, right? We’ve seen this in states that are, quote, red states, Indiana, to blue states like California and elsewhere, is around you know, how are investments made in health care, right? And I think a lot of legislators have probably rightly seen that some investments, particularly in health systems and hospitals, may not be the best outcome for patients, right? And I think what’s important to note is that, you know, dentistry is a different model in many respects to traditional health care. And so, you know, when investments come into dental, It’s actually increasing care and making things more affordable, which is, you know, sometimes different than elsewhere. So what we’ve really, really been focusing on is educating lawmakers and regulators about that difference and showcasing why, you know, dentistry is something that should not be included in in these types of legislation. based on the business entity’s capital structure. I know it’s a little nuanced, a little complicated, but the data proves that out, right? So if a DSO or a DPO or what have you has investments from a private equity or other type of outside investors, they’re deploying that capital to increase operational capabilities that the patient will like, you know, how do we get better equipment into the operatory to make sure that the patients are getting the care they need and to better understand that. And then also, you know, an expansion of offices as well as getting, you know, people into the mix for care. So, you know, when you look at that data, and I would actually add that we have collected quite a bit of information from Fluent, which collects insurance claims from private insurance. And when you look at it, DSO-supported dentists have less retreatment rates and higher percentage of returning patients and are diagnosing more cases of dentistry because they’re able to utilize technology like AI, like salivary testing that the patient recognizes there’s a need for that care. And so I think what you’re looking at is that, you know, most DSOs do have some level of outside investment and the data proves that point that they have less retreatment and patients want to return. So that’s another piece that we talk about. And we need to just, you know, drive that home with the legislators. And we have been knock on wood, you know, very, very successful in making sure that dentistry is not included in these, because I think the legislators recognize that there is a fundamental difference and that we’re utilizing the capital to expand the pie and to lower cost curves to the state because of better care, more preventative treatments and all of that. So it’s been an ongoing focus. I think we’re going to continue to see this rise over the next couple of years. You know, one interesting thing to note is, you know, with Washington, D.C. really changing how people are going to be receiving care, particularly those in the Medicaid space, we’re starting to see in some states this focus on keeping people in care. And, you know, how can you know, DSOs that are Medicaid-centric help focus on that. So I think you’re going to also see a focus on how do we make sure that people who have earned care are staying in care. But again, it’s an important distinction for us to make, and we’ll continue to be very focused on that.

Bill Neumann: So right now, I don’t know all the laws from state to state, but are any of these newer laws, and I guess some aren’t even laws yet, right? They’re maybe proposals. Are any of them affecting dental right now or is dental pretty much not in the mix and is it more focused on like hospital systems and that type of healthcare?

Andrew Smith: Yeah, so most of the things that have passed have been focused much more on, you know, what I guess you would call medical services organizations or large health systems and, and things like that. You know, we’ve seen in Oregon, for example, you know, some some kind of more focus on those that might have dual degrees, you know, like those that have a dental degree and a medical degree, but it’s also a little nuanced about how often, you know, are they using their medical degree 50% of the time versus that? It’s a little nuanced and different. But to your earlier comment, for now, you know, dentistry has been, and thanks to our government relations team, excluded from those regulations. And I think that’s something that we’re going to continue to keep the focus on.

Bill Neumann: Excellent. That’s great. Great news. Other initiatives, I know you work closely with dental schools and organized dentistry, so just love to kind of get feedback on what you’re doing there, anything new, maybe even some insights from you as far as like what are these younger clinicians looking for when it comes to career opportunities or owning a practice. I know a lot of DSOs now have pathways to partnerships where you can work at a DSO for a while and maybe, you know, have some ownership in a practice. So I’m kind of curious about that, what you’re seeing in general.

Andrew Smith: So I’ll just kind of start with what ADSO is doing and then kind of also give some feedback that I’ve heard from students and kind of where things are today. So we work very closely with the American Student Dental Association, and they’re a great organization. And again, they’re kind of the convener and facilitator for dental students to get a better sense of, you know, what their fellow peers are working on, then also kind of better understanding what options are available to them post, you know, graduation. And we work very closely with them on numerous areas. So we’ll host webinars and we’ll bring on DSO-supported dentists from our membership to talk to the students about, you know, what’s life like post-graduation and, you know, what’s been their experience of working at a DSO? You know, like you mentioned, what’s a pathway to ownership? And then, you know, just what are other aspects that are beneficial to working at a DSO? So various levels of mentorship, various levels of continuing education, and really making sure that the, you know, students are transitioning from their learning on the clinical side to the practicality of practice management and how you can be a successful clinician. and delivering great patient care. So we work very closely with them. I also speak regularly to dental schools and really kind of, you know, again, be that third party neutral resource for them to better understand what a DSO is and isn’t. You know, when I go and speak to the students, you know, they’re very, very focused on, you know, how can I be as How can I become a successful clinician right out of dental school? I think as we all know, dental schools teach dentistry, not the business side of it. And what we’ve been seeing from students is a real desire to not have to do the business side of dentistry. They’re really, really focused on patient care and being the best clinician they can be. And so I think when you look at how dental education and the training works is, you know, in many instances, it’s very cost prohibitive for many people. You know, dental school is expensive. Kids are coming out with a lot more debt than, say, you know, our parents did or the generation before them did. And so the idea of going to work at a solo practice and then eventually taking over that practice, that becomes much more cost prohibitive when you have that student debt and looking to stay somewhere and then taking over that practice. It’s just very, very costly. And so many of the students want what I had mentioned a little earlier. They want mentorship. They really want that continuing education. They want that support to be successful. So that’s why we’re kind of seeing that about, you know, 30 to 40, sorry, 35 to 40 percent of dental students today graduating go to a dental support organization. And I think that’s, you know, doubled in the last decade, for a lot of those reasons we’ve mentioned. And, you know, I think what’s important to note when I talk to students, once they realize, they’re like, Oh, OK, I’m working with a practice owner. There’s likely a pathway to ownership. I have that mentorship, I have that continuing education, and I can feel comfortable being a clinician. They’re really, really comfortable with coming into a DSL and better understanding that they have that support. Because I think at the end of the day, when they graduate, they still don’t have what I guess we call soft skills of, you know, how do you be a successful practice manager and all of that. And so that’s, you know, a really kind of exciting opportunity for us to just talk through all that and to see what’s going on. I will say, you know, for many of our members, that connectivity with those students is key, you know, especially for this mid-market size, next level event. Many of them you know, don’t have huge recruiting teams. So through ADSO, they really get optionality and FaceTime with many students to share how their DSO is unique and different. And we always tell the students, you know, do your homework, you know, one, you see one DSO, you’ve seen one, they’re not all the same, they’re very different. And we’re very, very focused. We have a website called the DSOdifference.org where we have a matchmaker tool. So it says, hey, I want to work with the Medicaid population and be in Illinois or the Midwest. And it comes up and shows the list of ADSL members that fit that bill and vice versa. you know, again, our job is really to connect our members with the students, educate, resource, be a resource for the students. So it’s been a really interesting thing we’ve been working on. And that’s something relatively new. We started this in 2022. And it’s been a great success. And we continue to really push, push on this.

Bill Neumann: There, I know that there was a big initiative, probably ongoing initiative for a while, working in conjunction with organized dentistry, the ADA, and I know that ADA has had some interesting changes recently, and I even saw an announcement that they have kind of backed away or pulled back some of their investments and initiatives when it comes to working with groups and DSOs. What are you, what kind of relationship is going on with ADA? Has it changed any?

Andrew Smith: Yes. No, I mean, I think, you know, at least since my tenure, ADSO and ADA or, you know, DSO and organized dentistry have never been more closely aligned than today. And I think it really comes down on the policy side, right? I think, you know, licensure portability is a major focus of joint interest. The insurance side where, you know, there’s no daylight between us, we’re very, you know, in sync on that. Um, and, and I think too, they have a phenomenal, uh, data, um, collection aggregate, you know, research arm in the Health Policy Institute. Um, and we’ve partnered with them on very, um, numerous amounts of kind of research data projects, kind of look at the, what the state of dentistry is, you know, access to care, um, you know, dental shortage areas. So we’re very, very closely aligned there. Um, you are right. The ADA has had some, um, changes, uh, internally. Uh, I don’t see that impacting a, the relationship, if anything, we’ve got a very strong relationship with their board and leadership, and then also the staff, uh, and leadership at ADA. Uh, you know, I, I did see that they, uh, had removed the, you know, DSO engagement. I think that was more of, you know, just a, a business decision on their end. I don’t want to speak, speak for them, certainly. But we have great connectivity, I do, with their interim executive director, Dr. Shapiro, as well as their current president, Dr. Kessler. And we stay in frequent contact. I was actually just with Dr. Kessler last week and, you know, talking about how we can continue to partner on things. So I still feel very well-connected and strongly integrated into their mission as well. particularly around continuing education and technology. So again, I think it’s in a good spot and I think we’re going to keep working with them as closely as ever.

Bill Neumann: Great. That’s great, Deuce. Yeah, and thanks for clarifying that. I know that there’s a lot of people in our audience that were, you know, a little confused. Not confused, but just curious to find out what the relationship was. And that’s great. You know, as we kind of wrap things up here, I know we talked about Next Level, which is coming up November 5th through 7th. We talked about policy and some initiatives that you’re working on with licensure portability and also private equity, of course, and some of the legislation that’s been going on there, which sounds like you’ve been doing your job to keep dental as far away from that as possible. And it makes a lot of sense when you talk about expanding access to care and how DSOs and the model really supports that. And if there was going to be some private equity legislation that affected dentistry, how that would limit access to care. So that’s great messaging and just super logical and makes sense. You’ve also got, and it’s changed a little bit, I wanted to just mention this because we’re getting to Q4, which is budget season for a lot of vendors out there, and also just people looking at their schedules for next year. You’ve got the ADSO, the main event, which is moving to June next year, and maybe we could talk a little bit about that.

Andrew Smith: Yeah, no, no, no, absolutely. So, uh, we’ve got the summit next year in Chicago, Illinois, uh, June 16th through the 18th, I believe.

Bill Neumann: Uh, 15th through 17th, I’d say.

Andrew Smith: 15th through 17th. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. It’s hard to keep track of all these dates, but yeah. Yeah, I listened up earlier, so. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That is that that is correct. And I think, you know, I’m obviously partial to Chicago. I grew up in the city, but, you know, there’s no better place in my mind to go to a conference in June than Chicago. We’re at the Hyatt Regency right kind of off Michigan Avenue and right on the Chicago River. So I think, you know, what we’ll we’ll see is, again, you know, some big thought leadership things. You know, where where is the industry continuing to go? Uh, and then, you know, we’ll continue to have breakout sessions for, by functional area for the CEOs and C-suite members. Um, I think as we continue to look through the events, I know you and I have talked at, you know, there, there are, there’s a lot of interest in dental, right? And so we’re seeing a lot more dental events. And so I think, you know, we continue to be very narrow and deep on what we believe our offering is, which is, content that is created by DSL leaders for DSL leaders. And I think that’s what you’re going to continue to see is heavy, heavy content from those that are driving the industry and where they see the future going. It’s our largest event, great networking, great opportunities to connect with industry partners, uh, and a whole host of other things. So I think, you know, that’s what we’ll continue to focus on at this event and events moving forward. I do think that we’ll probably, you know, you’ll, you’ll to the listeners see, uh, the ADSO summit. Be probably in a, you know, similar location, uh, and similar time of year, instead of kind of changing locations, changing time of year, we’ve heard from not just DSOs, but also the industry partners that that’s something they would prefer. So I think, you know, that again is something to just create for continuity, making sure people have that on their calendars, uh, and, and moving it through. But again, it’s, um, it should be a great event and, uh, you know, June 2026, we’ll be here before we know it. So get that on your calendar.

Bill Neumann: Yeah, yeah, and I’ll clarify that again. I think we were both technically right. I’ve got June 15th through the 18th here, because I know you kind of have some sessions set up towards the end that maybe are focused more on the younger clinicians, like dental schools, and you bring in, sometimes you bring in deans, I know. So this is a multi-day event. But yeah, I really wanted to kind of get this out in front of the audience just because we’ve, yeah, there’s been some changes in timing, And this is the June timeframe I think is great. And I love the fact that it’s in the middle of the country. I think most people will certainly appreciate that because it’s easy to get to from just about anywhere. But we’ve, again, I’ll drop a link in the show notes so you can at least put those dates in your calendar and block them off. And then as the event opens up, you can certainly register for that. But first things first, next level, November 5th through 7th. And then you can at least mark this in your calendar for mid-June next year in Chicago. And I also wanted to mention something, too, is that Andrew has a podcast as well with ADSO called Thank You for Flossing. So if you’re somebody that likes dental podcasts, you should make sure you check that out, too. I don’t know if you want to talk a little bit about that.

Andrew Smith: Yeah, no, I thank you, Bill, for mentioning that. Yeah, no, we launched Thank You for Flossing about two years ago. And, you know, as no surprise, everybody, as they consume news, media interests, you know, podcasts have become a great way for organizations and entities to discuss their particular issues, you know, things that we’ve been talking about today. And, you know, what we try to do on the Thank You for Flossing podcast is bring very interesting guests that are, you know, key stakeholders in the industry. But then we also have looked to have, you know, interesting voices to talk about public policy, right? So I’ve had, you know, former governors to former, you know, senior advisors on both sides of the political aisle coming on and kind of talking about you know, the state of health care. We’ve had, you know, people on talking about clear aligners in the industry. We’ve had individuals talking about, you know, dental assisting. And one interesting thing that we’re going to be doing, I’ll just tease out a little, is looking at how Uh, certain sectors have faced quote disruption. And I think, you know, I use disruption in a positive way, right? Where people come in, they look at an industry and say, how do we do this better for business, for customers or patients? And so I think we’ll. include some topics and segments of interesting speakers who might be industry adjacent, but in healthcare are vice versa to kind of look at trends and where things are going. I think that’s a really interesting thing for our viewership and listeners to talk about. And it’s, it’s things that are all relevant to the industry today. And so we’ll keep, keep focusing on that. And we’ve seen great success with it. And, you know, I think I would encourage any of your listeners, if you have an idea idea or individual that you would think would make sense, feel free to reach out to me directly and we can see if it makes sense to do. So it’s a, it’s a really great podcast and I appreciate our team and everybody that’s been helping make it a success.

Bill Neumann: Excellent. So that leads me to the last question here. If anybody in the audience wants to learn more about the ADSO or they want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way to do that?

Andrew Smith: Yeah, I think, you know, just shoot me an email, asmith at the ADSO dot org. I’m happy to connect with you directly or if there’s, you know, someone on our team that runs point on a specific topic issue, definitely can get you involved. I would say also, you know, those that are interested in membership would love to talk with you. We’ve got a lot of great programming for our membership in addition to the government relations and workforce development. You know, we’ve got study clubs for CEOs and their C-suites. And again, the goal is to have these functional areas lead in or bleed into and continue on from our events. That’s the goal. We also have CEO Straight Talks, where we bring in the various member CEOs and really just kind of talk about how they’re looking at dental, their journey, how they got there, how are they applying things. And then we do, this is a new program that we do for, for members and stakeholders of these regional meetings. We do about four a year where we bring together not just DSOs, but also key stakeholders. So we’ll bring together folks from the American Student Dental Association. We’ll bring folks with ADA. We’ll bring folks that are involved in technology within patient financing and implants. And again, what we have found that’s really interesting is that people know each other, but they really may not have had the chance to get to know each other. So again, it goes back to that thesis of ADSO being the convener and facilitator of conversations. And it’s, it’s just a great way to connect, usually over dinner. We try to do them in places, you know, like Chicago, New York, you know, West Coast, to kind of get a good, you know, good setup. So if you’re interested in that and other things, please, please let me know. And there’s, there’s just, there’s just great programming that we’re doing that we’ve really enhanced over the last two years.

Bill Neumann: Excellent recap. I’m glad we were able to reconnect again. I feel like every time we speak, there’s so much to talk about, and you and the ADSL are doing quite a bit to move the industry forward, and we appreciate it here at Group Dentistry now. It’s come a long way in the past 10 years as we’ve seen the industry develop. And I think the opportunities for younger clinicians, the opportunities for emerging groups looking for solutions and mentorship and things like that, that the ADSO can provide, these options weren’t there 10 years ago. So kudos to the ADSO for really You’re kind of helping the industry. You don’t necessarily have to go through all the exploration and making all these mistakes. I mean, you have people that have been there, done that, and can really make it a lot easier to kind of run your own group or find the right DSO to partnership because there are so many different models out there. It can be pretty overwhelming, but there are people like the ADSO that can really help out. And again, website, one shout out last time is really easy, theADSO.org. And thanks again, Andrew, really appreciate your time today. And thank you, everybody, for listening. I think you’ll get a lot out of this great conversation. And until next time, this is the Group Dentistry Now Show.

Andrew Smith: Thanks, Bill. Great to be on.

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